Elton John criticises modern pop: 'Chart music isn't real music'

Lay off the drugs mate.

I think you mean "lay OFF the drugs" ugh 🙄

Sorry Piers.

😂

Not sure what you mean. All my comments come from a constructive criticism point of view. I actually like all genres, but my favourite genre happens to be rock and metal. What I was trying to say the charts were far more colourful in the 70's and 80's because it was home to so many different styles and genres, and artists didnt necessary follow what everyone was doing, so they kept their identity. But now even rap artists sound like a watered down production along with country as its now classed as new country, but I heard a new country song the other day and thought hang on that could have been anything in the charts today, and has lost its integrity. Honestly you could play back the whole current top 100 and it all sounds like they hired the same producer. We seriously need a shake up if this industry if its going to survive. A punk revolution is needed.

He is a big hypocrite, in every sense.

yeah, the weeknd also did “in your eyes” which gave 80s ballad vibes. i come back to the doja cat remix more though.

So you still prefer 'In Your Eyes' to 'Blinding Lights' then? :P

He's certainly coming across that way at the moment! :/

of course! i love doja lol.

Is she still your favourite breakthrough artist of the year? ;)

i have multiple; her, megan thee stallion and roddy ricch are my top 3. shoutouts to joel corry, maia wright and polo g too! :)

Joel Corry has done amazingly well in 2020! :)

Maia Wright is now officially the most underrated artist of the year, for both of us, haha.

And what about the artists? How much do they make for their hard work from streaming? If you like some enough to listen to it a lot you well ought to buy it in whatever format floats your boat - CD/vinyl/cassette/digital. In this year were artists can't tour they are making next to nothing. Also support independent artists rather than mainstream stuff that is marketed to death.

I'm not saying the entire chart is rubbish but there is a lot more in the last couple of decades than at any time before then.

Well some independent artists rely on streaming for their money. Would you like it if all the postmen lost the post?

Music is subjective though! What you might think is isn't for a younger audience.

Clearly, the way the public are consuming is changing, so the chart formula has to be updated with it!

The #1 song tells us; "What is the most popular song of the week?", not; "What song made the most money this week?".

Also, see my post above regarding all the artists who are trying to bring back older sounds! All the good pop & dance from that era is still here.

Say it louder for the fossils in the back.

Trust me, I've been trying to do that for years, but they're still not listening! :P

I wouldnt call it all 'garbage'. Some maybe but not all...

True it's not all garbage. Some creative music and songs still out there. A lot of the rap music though is not very different from each other but occasionally even it has some different and quality songs released. Sometimes though it's because different genres go into different charts so they can be overlooked. I just checked out over 200 songs as I do most Fridays from Pitchfork, soundcloud etc. who send me music I might like. Plenty of music being made but I think about 90 percent of it I wouldn't bother going back to listen to again. Great though when I find something new that is good. My favourite today is from my favourite band. Zero 7 with their new song Shadows.

Hi James, the Official Chart exists to measure music consumption in the UK and what's popular, sales account for less than 10% of the singles market in 2020.

There's never been more ways to consume music than there is now - from audio streaming to downloads, CDs, cassettes, vinyl and video streams - the market is much more complex and fragmented than in previous decades, but the choice as a consumer is incredible.

We do weight streams differently to sales, of course, we know they're not the same thing, but all of these formats are legitimate means of accessing music in today's world, so it's important that it is captured in the chart. Thanks for following and your comments.

I agree, I think music is too disposable these days. I still very much prefer to buy the physical product. Downloading and streaming music is just degrading to the music which takes away the quality control as to what singles are released. Its too easy for record company today just to release songs from an artists album which can be very bad choices, so the radio stations play them, but end up giving the listener the wrong impression of the artist or other material. A lot more care went into what became a single when it was a vinyl single or cd single. Take Katy Perrys latest offering for example, her single Smile sounds more like a throw away b-side. I think we need to step back and re-access how we not only purchase music but how it contributes to the charts. We had a lot more diversity too 30, 40 years ago.

No because then children wouldnt be able to contribute, not evrryone buys songs. It wouldnt be a True reflection. If you want a sales chart there is one called "UK SALES chart"

Streams in any format should NOT count towards chart positions.

I cannot believe that people are still struggling with grasping this concept. They appear to be stuck in the 80s/90s. The media has changed, consumer trends have ganged, and therefore the methodology that is used to compile the rankings of what people consume has changed. What is so difficult about that?

Wrong. Dumb. Archaic.

Yawn.

Exactly. We no longer buy music (not CDs for sure --a few people buy stuff on iTunes, and some collectors purchase vinyl and cassettes). These fossils want the charts to be run on "their" terms. The main way in which the general public consumes music is streaming and that is why the charts have to include that component.

I completely agree. It's so easy to stream a song or an album. To buy a physical CD or an album or a song on-line is just another thing entirely for me. There's real commitment there, there's money spent. They might as well count youtube viewings too, that's absurd.

That way you can only measure popularity, yes but certainly not good songs or real artists that are really worth buying for

4 and counting people disagree w you

Rap is pretty much Black and Pop white and EDM every Country so i think its about even

no, because streaming makes up 95% of the music market.

The whole point of the chart is to measure popularity. Do shops even sell CD Singles anymore? I know they're still available but only from artist websites.

It's nothing new either. The CD single was pretty much dead 15 years ago. Although I carried on buying the odd one from shops until 2010 and from artist websites as late as 2018 and still keep my eye out for a few artists releasing them now, but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think the 500 CD Singles sales a week will make much chart impact!

word.

The 2020 Charts are well diverse - pop, rap and a BRILLIANT comeback for EDM. Indie bands have peaked at new positions and we've had a no 1 that was a rework of a single that isnt pop but i dunno what it is but the Chart are diverse! You have rap and EDM back in the 70s? I think not. And if the singles arent in the Charts it means theyre not as POPULAR, not that the Charts are bad 🙄

You seem to think that having rap in the charts in a good thing though...

I admit some rap songs are a bit over the edge... GOOBA and WAP for example... and yes, there's bad language, but tbh the songs are awesome! if you don't like rap in charts, fair enough but I do. I don't like every rap song, but I like a lot. I don't like heavy metal. I don't say it's bad.

yeah i agree, i really love rap and i think the charts are kinda empty without it. sure, there’s the odd bad song from the genre but everything else is just awesome imo. that said, we can like what we want. :)

oh yeah, i despise metal, worst genre ever in my opinion.

I mean rap takes up a lot if the Chart. Without it we'll gave Ride It (#100) at like #23 or something XD

Its all watered down production these days for a start. Honestly the whole top 40 sounds the same.

I felt the charts have been coming from the same album for about the last 10 years. The 1000 track album where everyone who has a hit collaborates and sounds the same.

Totally agree mate. I thought its just me getting older, but it seems there is more to this than meets the eye cause even my siblings prefer the older stuff.

I don't think it does. I KNOW it doesnt. If u dont listen to the songs often and listen to different genres, I expect you do think that

I like all types of genres. Rock, Metal, Dance, Country, Disco, Pop, too many to mention. My main passion happens to be Rock. Hardly any of the above is in the charts these days, not in the same way as I grew up in. I'm not even sure current chart stuff can be labelled as a genre, its all very watered down production as hardly anyone plays instruments anymore for a start or can sing. If I had to pick a favourite decade I'd choose the 70's. I dont think the charts have ever been as diverse before that or since. I think the 60's actually all sounded the same, but that is as far as I care to go back. The 80's had diversity but towards the end of the 80's probably 87 - 89 all sounds the same in terms of production. The 90's had diversity but lots of the genres I didnt like, for example rave, grunge, garage, etc was all the underground things of the times gone by mashed up and became mainstream. By the year 2000 was roughly when I gave up on the singles charts altogether as non of the music I like reached the top 40 anymore. Downloading killed it in my opinion cuppled with Radio 1 started to become ageist.

It might be us getting old, but there has to be some influence from playlist algorithms pointing consumers to similar stuff that they've listened to? Must stagnate the choices made and variety in the charts.

The charts don't measure pure popularity anymore. With things like ACR and arbitrary streaming ratios, there is an industry bias for or against some types of records that are receptive on those platforms. Before then, it was up to the labels to promote and get their material on radio and the chart measured how successful the marketing was (by counting sales, all sales were equal). Now there is manipulation within the chart itself where one record's stream may not be equal to the stream for another record.
Also Grandmaster Flash, Kurtis Blow and Sugarhill Gang were rapping in the 70s, although only SHG had the chart hit that early. The others had to wait 'til the early 80s.

Yea but that's not the public nor the Chart's fault. I admit i hate ACR but it's done for good reasons. I wish the OCC would publish a non-ACR chart as well

I love the songs in the Chart now. I think its diverse. Yes, its flooded with rap (which I love) but we've had a 6-week+ EDM no 1 this year... I dont think that's happened for years! So many countries have songs in our chart... Pop is still big. I'm not saying the 70s and 80s were bad (I like George Benson, The Spinners, The Carpenters, Isley Bros) but I love the Chart this year more than any other.

I dunno maybe its just because I was brought up listening to Drake, Calvin Harris, Rihanna, David Guetta etc

Well the Carpenter were sheer class. Karen Carpenters voice was like no other I have ever heard, she reminded me of someone singing you to sleep at night. I'm not saying rap is bad, there are some great rap artists out there but its just not my scene.
The thing I liked about the 70's and early 80's is you could have Motorhead in the charts the same week along side Glen Campbell. Or Bee Gees one place up from Status Quo, so much variety it was mad looking back but there really was something in the top 40 for your gran, grandad, parents, yourself and even your children. Its simply not like that now, the charts only seem to cater for the teenagers up to 30 at the eldest. I truely blame Radio 1 for a lot of this because back in the early 90's they started to become ageist as to who they played. So any artist over 30 was concidered old hat, and in their eyes didnt deserve to be in the charts. But why does the charts need to be trendy? It should be a place for all age's.
That coupled with the way older fans bought their music really put the final nail in the coffin for older artists certainly by the late 90's already established acts with a big fan base suddenly were not even having hit singles anymore.

Sounds like you have an issue with music that is not made by white folks. Notice how in your list of real music you fail to mention R&B, disco, dance, freestyle, house, etc. What we listen to today is made by musicians from all backgrounds and cultures. I guess you think that today's artists don't deserve to be called artists because the influence of urban styles (Black. Latino, Asian, and more) is all over the charts. Get over it.

I think you're wrong because my idol is Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy.
I also like some Disco, but not keen on R&B but thats just down to taste. I like some soul artists like Billy Ocean too.

Tell me an Indie band that have had a Top 10 hit in the last 5 years.

I haven't been affiliated with the chart for 2017-19 so no I cant. But the top 10 is hard to get into and indie isnt popular enough. So it's not the Charts fault, its the peoples fault. Its what people listen to. The Chart only compiles facts. Theyve had loads of no1 albums but the only indie band i listen to is the 1975 and they do well in the Chart.

Radio 1 do throwbacks i think. I dont really listen to R1 - I listen to 2 radio stations - CapitalFM which plays new/few months old hits (and a few 2010s songs) and SmoothFM. I would recommend the latter to you if you haven't heard it. The odd Ed Sheeran and Adele song but most of its from the 70s/80s and also there's a new stations called Greatest Hits which plays 70s/80s/90s only. If more people listened tothese, we could have reentries, but the problem isnt the Chart nor R1, which supports indie bands. The problem is: indie and rock etc arent as popular with ths younger gen anymore and they are the ones who listen most i expect and therefore they make up the Chart more and rap and Pop probably are made more than indie/rock etc because they're so popular. Like what you like but it's not the Chart's fault. Sure having the Bee Gees top 10 in the 80s was good, but not now. There are others who want that opportunity! And it wouldnt be fair on the younger people who do listen to these genres and do love them

I don't think thwse guys are racist, just prefer different music

It’s the radio stations fault. If they are still getting number 1 albums but not singles, then it’s got to be down to AirPlay.

I suppose, but most radio dont do indie. Capital play popular new hits which contribute to their BigTop40 (fixed), SmoothFM for example play older hits, and airplay isnt even Counted on the UK, only US

The problem is Radio 1 is still home to the official UK top 40 run down, so whatever Radio 1 plays has infuenced what reaches the charts apart from albums because singles don't promote albums like they used to. It used to be a case of singles were released first before an album as mini trailers to the album, but it doesn't seem to work that way now, especially with so many collaborations going on, its hard to know which is the lead artist or the featuring artist. Its better if a solo artist can stand on their own feet, but that seems rare these days.
Its ironic really because Radio 2 has a larger audience but the artists they promote have fans that mostly dont download or stream music, so this is yet another reason bands like Status Quo for example dont have hit singles anymore, yet can still have top 10 albums.

'Feel It Still' by Portugal. The Man (#3, 2017).

It was in the Top 10 biggest songs of that year too!

There you go.

It's entirely down to OCC. They make the rules and ratios...Change the ratios = change the chart, with no change in public consumption. That can't be good for accurately measuring the popularity of UK hits.

It's been that way since the charts began. But due to the early influence of the US record industry, most of it was white acts covering black songs and styles (Elvis, Buddy Holly, Pat Boone to name 3 without even thinking)...Not to mention the significant number of black acts themselves (Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Nat King Cole, Ink Spots, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Winifred Atwell, Platters) Most of which having #1 hits before the 60's.

Wow, you managed to say all of that in one single run-on sentence. lmao.

False

I think you miss the point and I don’t know what “Elton’s music were charting” even means. He is absolutely right, of course, the Top 40 is a no-go Zone for proper musical craftsmanship. It’s nothing but hideous rap and r’n’b, identikit autotuned dance pap and tuneless shouting by anonymous nobodies. A sad decline from the gloriously varied charts of old but then that’s what you get when you allow meaningless things like YouTube views to be counted.

He also did a song w the Surfaces that failed to chart

Miss Elton is still salty because he hasn't had a chart hit since 1997, when he simply exploited Diana's death to make a quick buck. He has attacked female musicians on repeated occasions (including Madonna, Gaga, and Janet). He is an icon, but he needs to get over himself.

YT is used by billions i dont think its meaningless

What I'm hearing is another tantrum, wonder if he had his tiara on too. There are plenty of proper songs with good tunes out there so shut up Elton and stop sounding like a bitter old queen. (I'm gay by the way so not having a go at the fact he takes it up the Gary Glitter)